Actress, producer, and transgender icon Laverne Cox once learned that the only two things a person can control is their own perception and their own behavior. Since then, Laverne has worked to surround herself with people who can show her new perspectives and help her become the best version of herself. And she wants us to benefit from her conversations, too, so she shares them on her podcast The Laverne Cox Show. For her premiere episode, she sits down with Dr. Brené Brown, a researcher who studies shame and vulnerability and has written five New York Times bestsellers, to talk about dehumanization and “rehumanization,” how her anti-racism work has affected her career, the unique place white women have in upholding white supremacy, and so much more.
Brené says that when she started to talk about anti-racism regularly, she lost a lot of followers – especially white women, who told her they were “disappointed” in her and sent her pictures of her books in flames. Laverne expresses sympathy, but Brené says it just shows that no matter how much they said her work meant to them, they didn’t really understand it. “I’m not here to please you. And the fact that you think I’m here to please you is exactly the white woman problem,” she says. She explains, using her own upbringing as an example, that white women like herself are taught – sometimes subtly, and sometimes very overtly – to understand that they will never have true power over themselves or their futures – the best they can hope for is to be close enough to power to catch the scraps. So white women will exert themselves to protect white supremacy and even patriarchy, because there’s a “deep socialization that, on purpose, does not involve the interrogation of power.”
And both Laverne and Brené understand why white people, men and women, might fight that interrogation. “Why interrogate power if what’s at risk is your privilege?” Brené asks. “If I’m going to interrogate power to better understand my experience on the margins, that’s one thing. But you’re going to ask me to….interrogate power and I got nothing but s**t to lose? Unless I believe existentially in a better world, or justice?” For many white people, it’s a tough ask, even if they’re motivated. Laverne talks about a white man who has dated trans women since 1993, but still won’t tell his father, because he’s so afraid of rejection. When the system is made for you, is there a worse fate than that? Hear more of this profound and insightful conversation with Dr. Brené Brown on this episode of The Laverne Cox Show.
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